Armored Kill Dev Wants Scout Choppers “To Be a Bigger Part of BF3,” No 2-Man Artillery Units, Mortar Tweaks and More

Our latest Battlefield 3 report looked at a few interesting bits of information regarding DICE’s upcoming DLC, Armored Kill as Lead Designer Gustav Halling answered some burning questions that hardcore BF fans are dying to know. Lucky for us, he isn’t done yet. Halling, head of the Armored Kill project, speaks more on the subject or artillery, vehicles, server issues and hints at some upcoming surprises.

In our last report, Halling mentioned that things were still up in the air in terms of artillery, though some guidelines were in place. One suggestion thrown around was the idea of 2-man artillery – a popular request for air vehicles as well. On the Battlefield 3 UK forums, Halling made it clear, “I dont want the artillery to be a 2 seater.” The rather humorous reason for this “is a well proven concept where in 1942 you drove your artillery into the perfect place and as soon as you switched to fire some noob took it and drove away with it, making you unable to use it,” according to Halling.

He did reveal that players “will not be able to drive and shoot at the same time,” however. He continued, “the way that I want you to switch between driving and shooting is that you switch stance as in a Jet when firing different weapons.” Although, “it will not require the ArmA styles since I dont see it fit the BF3 gameplay because its not a simulator,” he added. Halling also stressed the importance that players “can’t use the artillery system to span around the map spotting everything.” To him, “a goal about teamplay is that it should feel very close to how you are used to help players today, for example using soflams etc.”

When it comes to mortars, Halling explained, “I do actually like the mortar system since it docent give you a direct camera view over the area but only shows spotted or firing enemies.” However, “I do agree there should be tweaks done to it, I would like that audio spotting isn’t seen over the whole map when using a carbine etc but I can’t make any promises,” he added.

Scout helicopters were also in discussion between fans and Halling, as was earlier between fans and Senior Designer Alan Kertz. “I also love Scout helicopters and I want to see more of them. I can’t specify more atm but I want them to be a bigger part of BF3 on all SKUs,” stated Halling. So far, we’ve already seen an additional scout helicopter added to Sharqi Peninsula in the latest PS3 unannounced patch notes.

Lastly, Halling touched on the lack of Hardcore servers ever since the latest server update: “Saw some comments about adding more options to sort out Hardcore servers. I like that too and will forward to the Battlelog team.” So, hopefully, we can expect to hear more about this subject in the near future.

What are your thoughts about artillery, vehicles and the direction they should be headed in for Armored Kill?

Make sure to follow MP1st on Twitter and Facebook for more Battlefield 3 DLC details!

Source: Battlefield 3 UK Forums

  • Vet

    Two seated jets, that’s all I ask for

    • Casavult


      I would love to see this. 1 guy pilots, the other can shoot. It would be awesome!

      • just like in the movie behind enemy lines, it really would be amazing!

        • Michael Kelley

           Co-pilots rejoice!

    • Ryan

      JDAM, i would love some bombs to drop instead of rockets

    • J3tr1ding

      Heh i wold love a co-pilot to accompany me with my crazy flying…lulz  can imagine them craping there pants when i do my crazy flying xD

      P.S make there 3rd person view the view of the cockpit and be able to turn there heads

    •  That’d be cool. Limit the radius the gunner can fire rockets, but they can still look in a wider direction than the pilot, making communication during dogfights more important. The Pilot obviously would only be able to operate main cannon and flares. Gunner can operate missiles, rockets and whatever else. The problem then… People taking off without gunners. We see it enough with Chopper. Hopefully DICE increases the amount of Passenger Assist points, try to encourage more cooperation between drivers and gunners/passengers.

      • Usafpilot812

        Why would the rear fire the missiles… that isnt his job… he deals with the electronics and bombs… flares and combat systems are reserved for the pilot…

  • Noteamkill

    Hardcore without team kill turned on, that’s all I ask for

    • 88311111

      Then it wont be hardcore thats what makes it the diffrence

      • Tludt888

        No, a more responsive damage model and lack of crutches like HUD are what make it Hardcore.

        Teamkilling offers NOTHING to gameplay, other than frustration on both parties. I have no idea why it’s even in video games anymore at all, it really brings NOTHING positive to the table. 

        • Friendly fire is a core part of Hardcore, because you cant run around spraying fire like a moron or noob tubing/rocket spamming everything in site. 

          • Tludt888

             Teamkilling doesn’t stop people from doing that at all… It just means that there’s a consequence, people still don’t care about that consequence.

            There is no upside to teamkilling.

            Teamkilling is a -feature- of Hardcore, it is not an infallible core principle however. People abuse the teamkilling entirely too much and still spam everything willynilly…

      • Noteamkill

        Team kill is the most frustrating things ever. At the beginning of a game I just played I got into a heli and one Of my teammates was running for it as well. Once he saw I beat him to it he just pulls out an RPG and destroys the chopper killing me and another person just because he couldn’t get it. I got so frustrated I had to turn it off

  • mondrianaire

    Halling was spot on with the comment “…
    you drove your artillery into the perfect place and as soon as you switched to fire some noob took it and drove away with it, making you unable to use it”

    • Roland0811

      If the 1st seat is the driver AND the gunner and there was a 2nd seat that had the overhead map with a cursor to spot targets it’d work. The cursor would have range/direction tied to it and the 2nd seat would tell the numbers to the 1st seat who would adjust and fire accordingly. Basically taking what foul up they did with the mortar and splitting it between two people.

      • Mikey

         Sounds like a terrible idea.

        • Roland0811

          I know. A basic, easy to incorporate team based solution for a “team based” game. What was I thinking? Let’s just keep it point and click for the simple minded.

  • I agree that it is annoying when you’re running a tank for example, any vehicle really, and you get out to say repair it only to have some douche grab the driver or gun seat like it’s all good. Super annoying. Plus it has become a fun old time for Griefers along with their team-killing and/or damaging of team vehicles.

    Anyhow a two seater jet option would be great! All they have to do is give each pilot a responsibility, such as Pilot flies and shoots main guns and AA rockets while co-pilot controls land target designation and attack along with controlling to shots of flairs. Just a thought. Some variation of this would be straight.  

  • RoadTripToJalalabad

    I think artillery will need a player-specified spot command to tell the arty user what to bombard.  This is another place where the non-commorose contextual spot system is too limited.  A commorose is needed that has an “artillery” selection to mark the spotted target for an artillery barrage.

    I hope the new commorose in the patch provides better control over marking flags attack/defend, so that flag marking doesn’t happen by accident when just trying to spot someone near the flag icon.

  • Gangstaaaron7

    If he likes Mortors clearly he doesnt play his own game? Mortor’s are total BS!

  • Tludt888

    This is great news! I’m really impressed with the emphasis on improving the role of the Scout helicopter, I’ve spoken before about how it’s just a weaker attack helicopter, due to the fact that it’s often the ONLY helicopter in the map… which inevitably makes it into the apex predator, which it shouldn’t be.

    As with everyone else, really hoping for two-seater jets with an increased focus on CAS rather that dogfighting. 

  • can we please be able to shoot through humvees? atleast the glass?

    • Xander_B312

      . . . You already can.

      • not with bullets

        • andy b

          I thought the latest gen Humvees had bulletproof glass.

          •  yes they do but BF3 aint too much about realism and since the gunner cant be killed (cause he is also in the vehicle) cant also the m98b should penetrate the glass maybe just have high caliber weapons do it? (sniper rifles and machine guns)

        • RabidTurtle

           I’ve killed the drivers and passangers of the humvees plenty of times with rifles. Only one that seems to act strange shooting at is the gunner.

  • Roland0811

    All they had to do was make the the 1st seat driver/gunner and the 2nd seat use the Satmap to spot targets and pass on the range/direction (Quadrant/Mils) to the 1st seat. Not hard, DICE….problem solved.

    • So the pilot has all the fun flying and gunning while the co-pilot just sits there and spots stuff? It’s just as fun as sitting on top of a building with SOFLAM the entire time. In other words – it isn’t..

      • RabidTurtle

        Some people apparently think it is fun to sit on top of a building with the SOFLAM. Had fun killing them on top of the skyskraper in my havoc on Oman with my gunner 😀 They just kept spawning there, thinking something was going to change.

        And some people do enjoy spotting. The whole point of the MAV is to do just that, and the recent patch stops people from using the MAV as a killing machine. Sadly, the MAV elevator still works :/

        • Roland0811

          I was talking about the artillery……DRIVER, QUADRANT, MILS……How do those words sound like pilot, co-pilot, radar or anything to do with jets?

        •  I agree, it’s actually somewhat fun when you do it once in a while, but not for the duration of the entire round. :S
          At least MAV is mobile, so you don’t just sit there and press one button – you actually fly around, try to keep your MAV hidden and safe from enemy fire, try to scout the right area at the right time, look for enemy devices and claymores and destroy them.

          I tried playing with mortars several times, but I just couldn’t do it. It was boring. I literally could do nothing but sit in one spot, look at dots on the minimap and press “fire”. :/

      • Roland0811

        I was talking about the artillery. I could give a crap less about the jets. Hence I used the words driver, quadrant, mils. Nothing to do with jets.

        •  Oh, my bad, not sure why I thought you were talking about jets. Must be lack of sleep. 😐
          There’s still a problem with such setup though. It’s an overcomplicated process for a simple thing – killing an enemy. Both players would be very dependent on each other, and if one person sucks – they both can’t do a whole lot. Again, just like SOFLAM + laser designated weapons. It’s rare to see that combo working.

          • Roland0811

            That’s cool. I’m about done with this cartoon of a game anyway. They can make it poin and click for all I care. People can’t handle three simple steps? In today’s society I’m not surprised.

            Back to ArmA I go. At least that game nurtures skill and team work and doesn’t kill it with mini maps and twitch shooter mechanics.

  • Packerd34t

    All I want is an AC-130 with multiple seats

    •  I thought about this for awhile, but  it would be very hard to maintain balance with it. Obviously a full 4 person squad/fireteam could operate it (Pilot, 20mm, 40mm and 105mm gunners). The real question. Would players be required to launch it? Or would it only  spawn when a player selects it from the spawn screen and it’s flying into the map area on spawn. How would it’s damage output work? Clearly these things pack enough firepower to level several city blocks if needed, that would mean a lot of base raping if allied jets are able to keep enemy jets from shooting it down. While it could work, DICE would have to do a ton of playtesting to make sure it stays balanced.

      • andy b

        That would be a great idea for large scale 64-player matches on PC. But it wouldn’t work in any smaller matches because it would remove too many people from the ground (given that you already tend to have 12-16 people in aircraft on such maps).

        • Packerd34t

           Another cool thing they could do with it is make the inside of it an open area where you can walk around for repairers and make it a spawn point for the whole team. Then have the guns on the sides enterable like the kornet launcher.

        • Tludt888

           Uhhh… the maximum amount of people that you can have in aircraft on any map, as far as I know, on console… is 9 on the US side on Gulf of Oman. That’s assuming two full jets, a full attack helicopter, and a completely full Venom.

          Remove a Venom, replace it with an AC-130 w/ a 3 man team (Pilot, 105, 40mm gunner). That’s two extra people available for ground support.

      • Tludt888

        AC-130 Spectre’s aren’t being fitted with 25mm anymore, AFSOC is opting for a two-gun model. So I’d think that DICE would put in the 40mm/105mm aircraft for simplicity’s sake, balance’s sake, and not taking up a ton of players from the ground’s sake.

  • andy b

    I hope to God they don’t OP the scout choppers any more. But now we know who to blame for all of the chopper-friendly decisions I guess.

    A good scout pilot with two engineers on board is nearly invincible in 12v12 matches (far more so than an equivalently skilled driver in any other vehicle in the game). They need to be toned down.

  • JayD

    Have hardcore servers with the mini map off!

  • I’m not thrilled about the idea of artillery at all, to be honest.. it’ll probably suffer from same problems mortar has:
    1) Slow, boring camp-near-base-&-push-button gameplay.
    When you have the range but lack the mobility and defense – there just isn’t much you can do other than sit back and mash button. The way I see it, is that artillery is too limited in its purpose. It can do one thing but will suck at everything else. Compare it to tanks – you can get up close and personal while hiding behind cover, you can snipe vehicles from far away with zoom optics, you can obliterate infantry with coaxial MGs and thermal optics, or heck you can even go anti-air with canister or guided shell. And what can artillery do? Just troll from really really far away. That’s it. (I honestly can’t think of anything else that it could do better than other vehicles.)

    2) Unfair fight.
    The only chance to defeat a mortar user is to use a mortar yourself. Since “mortards” are often hiding behind their entire team – breaking through to them is near impossible. If you’re lucky – you might succeed in sneaking around and killing him, but he’ll respawn and will be back at it 15 seconds later. A similar problem could very well affect artillery too. Even if friendly aircrafts help take it out – most ground units still wouldn’t be able to do much at extreme ranges. This will result in frustrating one-way fights where aircrafts completely obliterate artillery, and artillery trolls everything on the ground from across the map while hiding behind a mountain.

    3) Team-dependency.
    If something requires a competent teammate, alive, in the right place, at the right time, with the right tools – it’ll be useless for majority of players. SOFLAM is a perfect example of that. You’re talking about artillery requiring teamwork, but doing so creates a risk of another “SOFLAM” being born – a tool that is useless most of the time. And even when it is useful – it will be boring for you because of #1, and frustrating for others because of #2.
    We already have artillery in the game. It’s called “Tank with zoom optics” that I’ve mentioned earlier. This setup allows to do some decent damage at pretty long ranges and isn’t that hard to pull off. I’m mainly an aircraft user, but even I didn’t find it too difficult to snipe enemy flags with a tank from across half the Caspian Border. This is a nice and balanced setup. Your range is long, but not to the point when the enemy can’t retaliate, and you still have a chance of survival even against aircrafts thanks to a vide variety of other unlocks.
    I think adding a few long-range-oriented unlocks to the tanks, or perhaps just making new tanks in AK have slightly longer range would be enough.
    Alternatively, artillery could be a stationary weapon and placed at one of the control points in the middle of the map. This is my favorite idea. Since artillery would be stationary – it would be easier to balance the map with artillery in mind, leaving some areas unreachable for artillery fire. And since it would be in the neutral territory – everyone would be fighting over it, so there won’t be long-term one-sided artillery spam. It would also make some control points have an interesting strategic value that is other than “a reeeeeeally tall crane for snipers”.

    ^All of that are just my thoughts on how it might turn out and what I think would work better. Of course I might be wrong and DICE actually comes up with something really interesting and makes artillery a fair, fun-to-use and fun-to-fight vehicle. Though somehow I don’t have high hopes of this happening. :/


    Scout helis – heck ye. More of these are always welcome.

    Two-seated jets – I’d love to see those too. I like the idea that someone posted earlier – one seat is for pilot who’d fly, use machineguns and heat-seekers to defend against enemy aircrafts, while 2nd seat is for gunner who would be responsible for taking out ground units. This would of course require some teamwork so the pilot gives the gunner a good angle, just like you do in attack helis.

    man, that is a long-ass post…

    • Roland0811

      Having been 0811 Cannoneer in the Marines, I can tell you that a TANK and Artillery are NOT the same. Artillery is a high angle non-line-of-sight weapon. Tanks are NOT. So throwing zoom on a tank is not even close to being artillery. Are there nothing but video game playing civilians on here?

      If the artillery were two seats. The 1st seat would drive AND gun. To fire the weapon he’d have to switch to firing mode which would take 3-4 seconds. After doing this his HUD would display a quadrant (it’s for range and angle of barrel) on the left. For direction it would be a flat compass on the bottom.

      The 2nd seat would man the .50 cal and use the Satmap (overhead map). He would move a cursor similar to the one the mortars use except whatever point the cursor is over, it displays the range and direction from the placement of the gun.

      2nd seat tells the 1st the range and direction. The 1st seat moves the barrel in said direction, raises the barrel to said angle and fires. It’s not hard.

      Limit the rate of fire to 4-5 rounds a minute, 900-1000m range, 10m splash damage with a 10m area of impact error and it’s balanced.  It’s not overly realistic.


       If that’s too complicated for people then BF3’s community is a sad excuse for team work.

      • Tludt888

        With VOIP problems, squad stability problems, and the lack of clans for most players, can you really blame them?

        • Roland0811

          Lol! Ya, you’re right. But I always play with my friends in a Live party so I can’t say I’ve really had that much trouble in that area. But you have a point. I thought of that too, but hell, just getting someone to throw an ammo pack or medkit down is hit or miss, mostly miss. Haha!

      • Well, like I’ve posted in another comment:
        There’s still a problem with such setup. It’s an overcomplicated
        process for a simple thing – killing an enemy. Both players would be
        very dependent on each other, and if one person sucks – they both can’t
        do a whole lot. Again, just like SOFLAM + laser designated weapons. It’s
        rare to see that combo working.

        4-5 rounds per minute – that’s 12-15 second interval between shots, so if you miss – you’d have to just sit there and wait. That’ll probably result in some really slow and boring gameplay. :S

        Again, SOFLAM as an example: in rare cases when you DO get a soflamer + javelin that actually work well together – it’s a scary and frustrating combo. Before patch they could easily one-shot helicopters without ECM and do mad damage even to tanks. You couldn’t do much about it since they were usually in a much much better position and well-prepared.
        Same would occur with artillery – truly skilled designator and driver/gunner would obliterate everything on the ground from behind cover, and your ground units wouldn’t be able to retaliate.

        I wasn’t saying tanks are exactly like artillery. What I meant is they already have some of the strenghts the artillery has. There’s no other ground vehicle in Battlefield 3 that can fight at long range as effectively as tanks, and they are easy
        to use and very versatile, so they already fit the game very well. Sure they can’t shoot over a mountain, but they can still do everything else well. A tank on top of a mountain will make a decent replacement for artillery that doesn’t suffer from all those issues IMHO.

        • Roland0811

          You have a good point but the gunner/pilot combo on the helicopters works with randoms, sometimes.  But a truly skilled pair in one of those things already obliterate everything in game. I’ve seen pilot/gunner combos go 40-50 kills with only a couple of deaths. They were efficient in there passes and did their job well. The gunner and pilot are very dependent on each other in the same instance you say they would be for the artillery.

          So I don’t see the hurt in having skilled artillery in game when there’s already combos that are crazy and kill everything. I’m sure you already know about the 2-engineers in a transport or scout heli. So if you’re talking balance issues look at the gunner/pilot or stacked engineers in gunships/transporst/scout helis.

          They are WAY powerful but no one seems to say anything. So what would be the problem with a skilled pair in artillery doing their job and doing it effectively? 4-5 rounds a minute is a pretty standard rate of fire and would keep the spamming down thus eliminating that worry. But it could be bumped up to 8 rounds a minute and still be good. And having to switch to firing mode and back would also decrease the spam and make it easier to locate and take out via those really powerful gunships. 

          Artillery is a tactical element on a battlefield. It should be treated as such. And my way isn’t that complicated. The 2nd seat moves a cursor on his satmap, it tells him the range and direction which he passes on to the gunner, gunner adjusts and fires.

          In short, 2nd seat moves cursor, tells first seat what it says, 1st seat adjusts and fires. 3 steps. If that’s too much for gamers to comprehend then WOW……just WOW… Lol! And artillery are very vulnerable to air assaults and fast moving armor. So things would balance themselves out in the end.

        • Roland0811

          I also found it interesting you mentioned team dependency in an earlier post. This is a team based game where communication and coordination win the day. But DICE have gone out of their way to put in gadgets and gaming mechanics to negate that.
          So while a lot of things in-game take a team effort to work right like you said, DICE haven’t nurtured the team aspect enough to entice people to actually use them.
           You get ziltch in points for using the SOFLAM, plus it’s not really portable which are too big negatives against it. And if the MAV would’ve just had a limited signal range  a lot of the problems with it would’ve been toned down, i.e. MAV killing and the like.
          So to rectify this, DICE have and are making things simple for one person to use without team help because it’s unlikely someone is gonna work together with you to make it effective and used to it’s full potential.
          In the end the DICE kinda shot themselves in the foot with this game. No one wants to be a team player because there’s nothing in it for them or it’s too complicated for them to figure out. It all boils down to selfishness, personal glory or just straight lack of effort to be a team player in a game intended for team play.

  • Erick G. K.

    Sounds like some good ideas, but the artillery could suffer from a lot of the same problems that the Mortar does. Also, the Scout Heli’s needs to have a repair nerf.

    I also think they should make a Driver Assist Ribbon (or something similar), for the drivers of the transport heli’s

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  • Mitur Binisdurty

    dice dosent care about the hardcore comunity at all!!

  • Murkman02

    I would like to see ammo for the motars and make the uav blow up when it hits someone so people don’t spend all day in the back of the map make it useful but not unstoppable

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  • Usafpilot812

    Bring back the F-15 strike eagle!!!! Bf2 had it right were the pilot handled guns flares and missiles and the rear handled the bombs… then u can add that Su(ck)-34 as its competition same as in Bf2… people need to check out how stuff really is for the jets… but then if that was the case the jets would be engaging/ evading beyond visual range 80% of the time…. as far as artillery leave it at one person and have to be stationary to unlock the cannon and adjust for prefire… any thoughts?

    • Roland0811

      In short—1st drives/aims/fires while 2nd seat uses an overhead map to give range and direction and operates the .50 cal machine gun.

      The artillery should be two people. One person drives and operates the main gun. the second seat uses an overhead SATMAP with a cursor that has range/direction tied to it. So when someone spots a target the second seat moves the cursor on the map over the target which gives him the range and direction.

      The first seat stops, switches to firing mode which takes a couple of seconds. His firing HUD then appears with a range meter on the left and flat compass for direction on the bottom. He adjusts the barrel’s quadrant and deflection and fires.

      It’s not complicated. 2nd seat passes range and direction to 1st seat, then 1st seat adjusts and fires.

      It SHOULD be two seats least. It’s a team based game. Make the vehicles team based.

      5-6 rounds per minute with 800-900m range. 10m splash damage with 10m area of impact error.
      3 seconds to switch to and from firing mode and spamming won’t be a problem.

      People here don’t like it and say it’s too complicated yet the same people want tandem seat jets that function almost the same way. Go fig.

      • Usafpilot812

        Ok just me being critical but where the fuck do you think the rear operates the gun…? No they dont and it pissed me off battlefield would even do that for the campaign… secondly jets don’t use .50 cals the normal cannon is the 20mm cannon and heavy cannons ie A-10 fire a 30mm. But the rear doesnt manage any “air to air” combat systems exept radar and spotting and in most jets now countermeasures are deployed automatically…

        • Roland0811

          Ok, maybe you didn’t read that I was talking about the Mobile Artillery. In your post you mentioned the mobile artillery. I was responding to that part of your post. I could give a shit less about the people who fly around doing nothing for their team. Let them have whatever. I’m talking about the artillery. Jets mean shit to me, I didn’t fly in the Marines, I blew shit up with the M198. 

          LOOK AT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH OF MY POST and thanks for jumpin’ the gun there, airwinger.

          • Roland0811

            Also, at the end of that post I was referencing that there are people on here posting that they want the second seat to be the ones doing the firing and other ridiculous things. I know how tandem seat jets work. But again, I could give a shit less about the jets in this cartoon of a game.

            • usafpilot812

              Well you didn’t specify that part for the mobile artillery… and i will admit artillery is beast but so is a good pilot bringing in close air support

            • roland0811

              True, I’ve seen jets own a map and keep armor from doing a damn thing a whole round on Rush.

  • USFighter:
    -F/A-18D/G two-sit with laser guide bombs and ECM

    -The Apache has to come back
    -UH-58 Kiowa or the LittleBird as advance observation helo with laser designation

    -Su-34 or Su-35

    -KA-60R (Kiowa equivalent)
    -Mi-26 (Chinook equivalent)

    • roland0811

      So…….go from Marines and make the DLC Army??

  • TheVet-Noob

    I was thinking that maybe, like the tanks “third seat” CITV station unlock, maybe, just maybe, the 3rd seat for the AC-130 (pilot) could be obtained by reaching jet service star 2, restricting the “less knowledgable” players to being a gunner. Who would want to fly, you might say? Someone with jet service 2 would be a good pilot (should be) and want the driver assists or just to help a friend. I know that I enjoy letting a friend of mine get all to helicopter gunning kills while I just relocate searching for tanks while he just kills the infantry in those tight spaces. Maybe the AC-130 on auto pilot would take a less desirable path and the driver could fly closer to the hot spots while still maintaining that nice overhead arc to maintain max effectiveness with the gunners. If the pilot exits, it would just resume auto pilot starting from the closest point in the set arc they are probably programming as we speak.

  • sas

    i will ask new air vehicles like a clasic black hawk and it will be awsome to see like a rapling equipment to places that are to close to for a parashoot

  • Aciada

    two man jets like in battlefield 2. definately needs to be added. there are 2 man helis, why not jets?