EA CCO On Battlefield Complainers

Electronic Arts chief creative officer, Rich Hilleman, had some interesting and rather frank words to say about gamers who constantly complain about games like DICE’s Battlefield 4.

Recorded at the University of Virginia Darden School of Business last September, Hilleman spoke about his position at EA, what it entails, and what his responsibilities are. At one point during the talk, the topic shifted to Battlefield’s reception amongst core FPS gamers. Hilleman spoke frankly and honestly about those who spend their time complaining about the game:

We watch our forums a lot, because we care what our players have to say, and [on] some of those forums we’re responsible for, one of the things we have learned—especially in the free-to-play space is [that] the people who spend the most time complaining happen to be the people who spent the most money. So my attitude is: “If you spend enough money with me, you get to complain.” If that’s what makes you happy is to go on the forums and complain, you get to complain.

The reason they’re doing that is because they are establishing their place in the social hierarchy on the forum. It is not about our product—it’s about their relationship to the other players. And if I get all twisted up based on what they’re saying, I’m actually going to build a product they don’t like.

…I grew up in Las Vegas, and one of the byproducts of growing up in Las Vegas is that you learn at a very early age is that people lie, like a lot. So, as a result, I really distrust what people say. It isn’t that I don’t like them. It isn’t that I don’t think they’re trying to tell me the truth, but I don’t think it’s a very precise form of communication; and it’s full of all kinds of other stuff that has nothing to do with my objectives.

Clearly, Battlefield 4 hasn’t had the smoothest of launches and DICE has had to spend the last few months putting significant effort into patching the game and bringing it up to expectations. Early Battlefield 4 Premium subscribers who have spent over $110 on their product certainly have a right to be concerned. But do you think there is still truth to Hilleman’s words?

Let us know in the comments!

Thanks, Kotaku.

  • sd94

    Not sure I agree with applying the principles of Las Vegas to a videogame message board. While I would agree that a lot of what people say on there is posturing inside that little community, there are often people who have legitimate concerns that get drowned out in the nonsense. The Killzone forums are pretty awful for that, actually.

    • Katana67

      Agreed, so-called “complainers” need not be grouped together with those who have legitimate and well-reasoned critiques (of which there are many) of BF4.

      • DarthDiggler

        Generally that is accomplished via the content of the complaint or critique.

  • John Jacks

    Are you kidding me! I am still unable to play the campaign without loosing the save the next day! I still get no sound in 60-70% of the TDM games I play. Fix the problems and this game might be great! Just for the record I own the game for PC and PS4, guess what both versions have the same bloody problems.

    SORT IT!

    • zack bosn

      ^ bad luck brian there. i play on pc and still only some glitch here and there

    • DarthDiggler

      Try using a USB thumb drive to save your save files as a backup.

      Good rule of thumb with any technology that you can store data on…

      Only back up the data you don’t want to lose. Data loss is unavoidable at times. I had this issue but was only a few weeks after launch, if you hadn’t played in a while I believe they did address this.

      • John Jacks

        Data loss is unavoidable at times lol are you kidding it doesn’t happen on any other game I play on the ps4. I have tried to play the campaign 4-5 times and everytime I have lost the game save next day.

        • DarthDiggler

          @john_jacks:disqus

          You must be new to technology. :) I got my start on an IBM XT.

          Yeah games and consoles are going to run into issues sometimes, so if you want to empower yourself and not be a happless victim (ready to whine when things don’t go your way) you backup your data. That way data loss turns into a minor annoyance and not a catastrophe.

          Up to you, but I invite you to put on your big boy pants and take control of your own destiny.

          I haven’t had an issue with single player game saves since January, you sure you have patched your game?

    • DarthDiggler

      Who plays TDM on BF4? :-P

      I would never admit that if it was true. LOL

      • John Jacks

        Guess what DarthDigger I play TDM on BF4 I am sorry that bothers you! What does it matter what game mode I play, there’s no sound on 60-70% games. if you don’t agree that’s a problem then you need to get you head seeing to!

        • DarthDiggler

          I am just giving you shit man. :)

          Sounds popping out has been a staple of the BF game series. :) I don’t have many sound issues, I do sometimes but nowhere near 70% sound loss in games. 10-20% at best. Maybe it’s an issue with TDM though.

          You know what it happens on other games too. Does that mean their publishers are heartless bastards too?

  • DANNYonPC

    What a cunt.

    • Ryan Merrifield

      This is exactly what he was talking about.

      • jordanxbrookes

        He is a c*nt.

      • VEX_VEHIX

        Lol.

    • Witblitz

      Major Cunt

      • Angelreborn96

        Super cunt

    • DarthDiggler

      He has a point, would EA be as successful as they are if people voted with their dollars as much as they did with their mouths?

      At the end of the day talk is cheap.

    • Paul

      I thumbed up your comment. For the simple reason that your honesty and straight forward comment is refreshing.

  • Yevgenij Pekurovskyy

    You fucked up 100 times and now you call consumer an idiot. Way to go, EA, way to go

    • VEX_VEHIX

      No, not “idiots”, entitled, whining liars. Yea, thats it.

      Some balls on this one.

      • scannerbarkly

        I think once people have paid for a product then they have the right to express their opinion on the product. With regard to what Hilleman actually said, you can be pretty sure he just started another PR disaster for EA.

        For many folk that paid for BF4, it simply does not work as it should, so of course they are going to feel aggrieved. Its honestly not that hard a concept to wrap your head around.

        Now, dont get me wrong, Im well aware there are a small group in the community who take things too far, just as much as there is a small group in the community who feel the need to go from forum to forum and article to article telling everyone the game is fine and that anyone with an issue is wrong. Here is the simple truth, both these subsets get removed from any serious discussion as both of them are biased and compromised beyond the point of actually bringing anything of worth to it.

        One thing my time working at high levels in an international corporation thought me though, they second you publically talk abuot something, its spin. That is just how it is. He wouldnt be talking about this if it wasnt an issue. So, its logical to assume there are enough people complaining about the state of the product that it is currently a cause for concern for them.

        • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

          Oh, of course. Nobody here is denying that people who attribute and expend value for a product they are then dissatisfied with has the right to complain. Hilleman made it clear that he thinks the people who spend money do, in fact, care about what they spend it on. Big surprise, right? He says, in the provided quote and on the Kotaku source, that their highest-paying customers on their free-to-play titles tend to complain the most (e.g. “our whiniest forum guys are actually our biggest payers”).

          But that adds to his reasoning on the purity behind people’s opinions being clouded by less-important or irrelevant matters. People are not nearly so pure in their complaints as it ideally would between customer and company. But I’ve made other comments on related ideas that I won’t repeat here in length.

          I’d like to pose a question, though, relation to Hilleman’s statement on disingenuity among complainers: philosophically, who should be the most believable in a debate? A person with invested interest and therefore biased or a person with nothing to lose or gain and therefore presumably unbiased?

          • scannerbarkly

            Well, one would have to argue there that the scale of “something to lose” greatly increases on Hillemans end, rather than any consumer who is experiencing issues with the game.

            He is effectively complaining about the games reception afterall. It is basically impossible to make a statement like the one he made, in the context that he made it, and ignore the fact that he is doing so on the assumption that nobody points out that, well…he himself could in fact just be a liar.

            • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

              Well, the problem is that his talk is unrelated to the negativity around Battlefield 4 completely. In fact, pointed out by David in the article, it preceded Battlefield 4′s release by more than a month.

              Regardless, I responded more in general to his statement (given the nature of his entire talk being unspecific to Battlefield as well). It’s true that any of EA’s higher-ups have more to lose than any individual customer in my proposed question. It’s also true that he may be lying himself, which is an interesting concept that we could use to read further into his thoughts. But I don’t care to involve myself in that mess that we can’t possibly hope to discuss with any sort of confidence without personal experience beyond knowing him as fulfilling a position in a company that published a game that we have grievances about. In fact, that’s the reason why I generalize him and all others “held responsible” for whatever complaints I have as simply EA, who are collectively accountable.

              My question, for clarification, is a discussion on things we can more authentically argue as a topic of consumers and spectators, being consumers or spectators ourselves. It’s not given as a means to prove Hilleman wrong or right but a consideration stemmed from his words that may give you or me a chance for more introspection or insight than calling him an ass or a cunt. It’s beyond what my own opinion is, which can be presumed from my other comments under this article.

              Ultimately it’s just a general idea (because nobody in this thread is in disagreement) I brought up to your response, which I assume you removed because you might have misinterpreted the comment you replied to but still held thoughts that summed up several of those in this comments section.

            • DarthDiggler

              I think Mass Effect 3 and Battlefield 4 showcase that the gaming community is kind of turning into brats at times. I say this as a gamer that just doesn’t understand all these people who seem to feel like hapless victims all the time or even worse don’t seem to have any context of history.

              I wasn’t surprised that BF4 ran like crap on PS4 launch night (I was very disappointed none the less). I had played BF3 and BFBC2 on PS3 and it ran like crap on launch and far beyond launch.

              The common reactions when I point this out is BF3 or BFBC2 didn’t have as many problems as long. Which may or may not be true, but its kind of splitting hairs. The Battlefield console games all had multiplayer issues for a good 2-3 months.

              I am not some hapless EA victim, I am a savvy consumer and I am satisfied with BF4 at this point. Some of the things in the pipeline sound great.

          • DarthDiggler

            I read it as, everyone has a right to complain and often the biggest spenders complain the most. If they acted on all complaints in their game design it may make the game far less desirable to everyone.

            That’s just what I got, but I don’t read news about EA with any knee-jerk reactions on the ready.

            • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

              That’s definitely the way I took it as well. Everyone’s selfish in that nobody’s altruistic, which is absolutely normal. It’s cynical to call what people act upon agendas, but it sums it up well. Even unconsciously, people are reinforcing their bias through complaints and thoughts as I do right now in this comment. People feel excessive entitlement (and there is indeed such a thing–purchasing fruit from a street vendor does not mean you get to start badgering him about only a number of very specific things you dislike) or seem to forget while flaunt their position as a customer. Even the most well-balanced person will not be entirely cogent when angered as he or she would upon calming down.

              I made a comment on another Battlefield 4 article a month or more back trying to defend the game developers. Gamers often forget that developers bear incredible responsibility in the non-stop decision-making process that is game design and, otherwise, making. Customers see the very surface of this: the final product, which is undoubtedly all that should matter to the developer, as to not rationalize outstanding issues. However, this creates, along with possible delusions of unreasonable entitlement, situations where people cherry-pick at things they want changed based on their “agenda” blissfully ignorance to the whole. The perception of lying consumers may very well stem here though EA sure isn’t taking many real measures to ameliorate public knowledgeableness beyond a weak panacea. Here, I prefer to mildly generalize people, although I want anyone reading this that I am aware of several specific extraneous circumstances regarding Battlefield 4, otherwise I would never get anywhere in these already-lengthy posts.

              This all ties back to EA. It’s not ideal to have rough multiplayer launches so often and others have definitely done better, but it still is understandable given the scale of the project considering the ongoing support. We, or at least I in my cynicism, can pass some blame to the consumers who eagerly preorder games (especially those who lay down the much-rallied $110 figure) without hesitation, aware or unaware of Battlefield’s launch history, based on advertisements, sociocultural pressures, and impulsivity from promised incentives. I want to keep repeating this so I will: gamers, and all consumers, need to take responsibility of what they buy first before they begin deciding to champion class action lawsuits. The most obvious and easiest thing for people to do is to delay gratification: watch a product’s release, conduct basic research, and purchase if the skies are clear. You can survive not being the absolute first to own something.

              With regards to hype: what EA’s dealing with is dangling slabs of meat in front of a caged, hungry lion. Except that where you expect the lion to maul when the cage is opened, we find an impenetrable glass wall that keeps the animal caged, angry, but still hungry. This is the basis on which people try to claim false advertising: a perception deliberately elevated by EA as high as possible without any need to consider consequence because there’s always a glass wall. This is all in relation to the previous paragraph but I want to show it beside EA’s less-than-honorable role here. And even if I do approach anything EA-related with a predisposed negative bias, or anything else more immediately important in my life, I can still expect to compensate for knee-jerk reactions as most people should.

              Aside, I don’t think EA’s blameless at all, which I fear you may be trying to imply. Mass Effect 3 has tons of problems design-wise that led me to dislike the game as whole as an entry to the franchise, so it was to my chagrin when everything I or others had to say was overshadowed by a preposterous outcry about an ending they didn’t like. Yes, the gamers there, to me, were out of line (refer to the first two paragraphs). And yet EA has put out an increasing number of titles with issues I find severe because the white noise of a majority settled on a handful of complaints helps the company as much as I’m sure it pains them.

              But to close the point: everyone does what they do for a reason. Everything. It’s just not so easy to speak about in a number of paragraphs without necessitating the generalization of a group. For savvy customers like yourself, and hopefully myself, it seems savviness, in a loose sense, should be the norm. But clearly the 2008 global financial crisis speaks differently.

            • DarthDiggler

              You make some excellent points, but the whole “less than honorable” portion seems a little off base to me. The way I see it EA and DICE is just like any other company, they have to make a buck.

              EA sells games not medical devices, I think we could all scale our ire appropriately. No one will die because Battlefield 4 didn’t get patched soon enough.

              This all ties back to EA. It’s not ideal to have rough multiplayer launches so often and others have definitely done better, but it still is understandable given the scale of the project considering the ongoing support.

              Given the scale you can really only point to one other franchise with this size of launch. Call of Duty is very limited vs Battlefield in terms of the network infrastructure that is required to make it function. If DICE removed destruction, vehicles and maxed their player count to 9v9 they could probably pull off hosted servers as well and only require network infrastructure for matchmaking. If EA really were the profit mongers people make them out to be I think they would take that route because it would be far less expensive to run just matchmaking servers and not deal with dedicated servers.

              We, or at least I in my cynicism, can pass some blame to the consumers who eagerly preorder games (especially those who lay down the much-rallied $110 figure) without hesitation, aware or unaware of Battlefield’s launch history, based on advertisements, sociocultural
              pressures, and impulsivity from promised incentives.

              I was one of those guys and even contacted support to request a refund. It works now so it’s no big deal, I may even do the same thing for BF5, I love the game and while I am always disappointed with the launch I understand network infrastructures enough to know that EA and DICE are likely dealing with a delude of users that they can’t possibly sustain because everyone wants to get on at once. The solution isn’t a lack of infrastructure because you will never replicate that amount of activity beyond launch. Honestly I think a reasonable way to launch these types of games would be a phased in approach. The server slam technique obviously has it’s limitations. :)

              The big question here is why can’t our gaming media enlighten us to how this stuff works instead of treating us like peasants stoking the flames in our torches and sharpening the points on our pitchforks?

              No disrespect to MP1st they generally do a pretty good job of not being click baity. This article is borderline though, considering the age of the quote. :-P

              With regards to hype: what EA’s dealing with is dangling slabs of meat in front of a caged, hungry lion. Except that where you expect the lion to maul when the cage is opened, we find an impenetrable glass wall that keeps the animal caged, angry, but still hungry. This is the basis on which people try to claim false advertising: a perception deliberately elevated by EA as high as possible without any need to consider consequence because there’s always a glass wall.

              You kind of lost me there. Honestly though if the customer is the caged lion I think that says more about your perception of the customer and not EA. I am no caged lion. When Battlefield didn’t work I simply played another game. I didn’t create a scenario in my head that my desires were the most important thing in the universe and if I couldn’t play Battlefield due to launch night issues, someone was going to get sued. :)

              I saw no false advertising with EA, I saw a game getting slammed and EA patching the shit out of it. I say Sony activate to remedy the firmware issues. There was no period of “ahh fuck it” from EA or Sony. Which seems to be the attitude from most of these other cats that have a hate hard-on for EA.

              Aside, I don’t think EA’s blameless at all, which I fear you may be trying to imply.

              I am at odds with just the presumptive terminology that you and others assign to EA. Is EA to blame for BF4 woes? Like should EA spend millions setting up servers that won’t get used a week after the game is out? Should EA change the ambition of Battlefield so it is far less network taxing?

              Everything is a trade off. I just think people pile on to EA just to pile on to EA. It almost reminds me of the Anti-BlackBerry sediments from Android folks. If you want to have a well reasoned argument about what a company has done wrong, fine, but giving EA shit for having launch issues when there is really no other game on the console doing what they do isn’t exactly the best place to start.

              Mass Effect 3 has tons of problems design-wise that led me to dislike the game as whole as an entry to the franchise,

              The whole complaining about the ending of a game was a new level of gamer entitlement, those people need to change their diapers.

              I hated Call of Duty, guess what, Activision didn’t get any of my business for 2+ years. I still haven’t bought a COD game since, although I was given BlackOps II.

              Not speaking directly to you of course, but complaining only has limited impact, if you truly do not like what a company does put your money where your mouth is, if more people do that, certainly that will create an environment where EA is ripe for change.

              IMHO I just think some people like to complain and nit pick. Others I think like to be apart of the group putting someone else down. It feels good to be included. :)

              For savvy customers like yourself, and hopefully myself, it seems savviness, in a loose sense, should be the norm. But clearly the 2008 global financial crisis speaks differently.

              The 2008 crisis was heavily influenced by government regulations that basically mandated loans for people who couldn’t pay them back. None of EA’s policies are enforceable by law (unless in alignment with the law). EA has no armed police force with jurisdiction in your town. Not sure how the 2008 crisis is germane to the topic matter of EA’s quality control.

              We are talking about games here man. Not peeps getting no document, no income verification loans because the Government decided it wanted to play Dudley Dooright and lower home load qualifications (via Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac) and create a bubble in real estate.

              Last I checked games don’t make good roofs over our heads. :) You tend to get a little exaggerated in your analogies man.

            • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

              I’ll just pop in and clarify, though I did read through the entirety.

              My perception of the collective customer base for software has grown negative, especially having been on either side of the industry (not the publishing side, however). That paragraph was aimed at an unavoidable circumstance where the artificiality from brief teasers and trailers aimed at hyping customers will never end well even when either party has their reasons. I look at the crowds of people brandishing what might as well be verbal pitchforks at EA, stirred up by typical video game marketing techniques that might just not be working with such a large crowd anymore. You dangle food in front of a hungry rat and the least you’ll get is a bite. With a lion you can expect worse. But EA’s unlikely to be mauled to death because they, as you have mentioned elsewhere, they are not particularly at fault compared to previous games with similar launch histories, as well as their size as a company.

              As for the financial crisis reference, it is not germane to EA but to the consumers, ergo the preceding sentence. A popular attribution is that partial criticism can be handed to the buyers who contributed in a bubble that was analyzed thoroughly well before it popped. Nothing more than closing the point (hence the purpose of the paragraph) on my now well-established negativity.

            • DarthDiggler

              @thatspeakeroftruth:disqus

              Understood, but I kind of disagree with you about the hype. It’s a game, not a life chaging moment, sure EA’s marketing department wants to stir peeps up to generate interest, that is their job. They don’t do it any worse than say Justin Berber’s publicist. I think it’s only prudent that we apply a reasonable comparison here and not treat gamers and the gaming industry as if it exists in a vacuum.

              At this point I don’t even know what people’s beefs are about the game, because I am not getting many specifics from people just the usual GWAAR EA SUCKS! This kind of atmosphere isn’t conducive to constructive criticism which really plays right into what Rich Hilleman was talking about.

              Someone even noted the save game issue which I am sure was fixed weeks ago. :-P

              Good chatting with you man. :)

      • DarthDiggler

        When you have an audience that collectively QQs over the ending to Mass Effect, I think you would have a hard time defining them outside of the terms ‘cry baby’, ‘ entitled’, ‘whiny’, etc.

        • VEX_VEHIX

          I understand what you are saying, but If I buy a product, I expect it to work. Plain and simple. This launch was atrocious. They’ve learned NOTHING from BF3. THAT, is why most people bitch even more. Its becoming a trend with DICE.

          • DarthDiggler

            @VEX_VEHIX:disqus

            Your points would be 100% valid if every publisher had a game with 32v32, full destruction, ground vehicles, helicopters, jets, etc.

            BF4 is pretty damned unique and I don’t even know people who could code netcode for that game. The level of skill set they require for that franchise is above and beyond your cut and paste texture redress that COD does annually.

            Of course it’s a trend for DICE, no one else is doing what they do with online. Why can’t gamers accept the fact that things won’t work 100% of the time.

            Gaming is a Consumer Level Product not some Enterprise Level Product, you are not paying for 99.999% up time with ANY game, do not expect Enterprise Level service unless you actually PAY FOR IT.

            Check your terms and conditions on these games. Launch issues likely are outlined because they are unavoidable.

  • dieger

    “We watch our forums a lot”

    “because we care what our players have to say”

    “So my attitude is: “If you spend enough money with me, you get to complain.” If that’s what makes you happy is to go on the forums and complain, you get to complain.”….wait does that mean if you purchase every piece of dlc for BF4….you can do whatever you want the the forums and the mods can’t do crap?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_y00kb_jVc

    • DarthDiggler

      @dieger:disqus

      Did you have a point there? :)

  • Katana67

    Well, you just make a poor product. Regardless of whether you’re considering or ignoring the player base (or so-called “complainers”)

    At the end of the day, you’re making a product which an apparent majority of players take issue with.

    You can take their critique at face value and apply it blindly, you can say “screw off, working as intended”, or you can apply your own faculties of prudent understanding and synthesize your own goals with the desires of the company.

    That said, the Battlelog forums are a cesspool. Say anything intelligent, and you’ll be berated for it. So, to that extent, yes… the majority of the folks on Battlelog (and Symthic) are toxic and narrow-minded.

    However, there are good ideas being floated that have to be at least tried.

    You haven’t approached a perfect product yet DICE/EA, you should be trying every avenue to accomplish this goal, not closing potential pathways for progression/innovation.

    • ali jackson

      and because those forum are such a disgusting negative minded cesspool, is the reason why DICE is in a no-win situation. Regardless of what Dice fixes, unless 1-2 big YTer says that something is fixed, those clowns in those forums will say it aint fixed.

      • Katana67

        Which is why they need to actually apply filters between “complaining” for the sake of it and criticism, there is a distinction between the two.

        Most of the time, a successful critique involves solutions rather than just problematization. There are intelligent folks out there who have serious and legitimate issues with how BF4 was executed.

        These people shouldn’t be lumped in with the common rabble.

  • ali jackson

    OF COURSE there truth is his words… Many people bitch for the sake of bitching.. and many YTers only mainly bitch to keep their viewers happy.. BF4 (while the launch was rocky), is NOWHERE NEAR as bad as some of these whiny ass people complain that it is….. and if you have over +200hrs put into the game and you’re still bitching and whining, then you’re pretty much a laughable hypocrite and no one should even take you serious… so yes, there is some truth in his words. The game is still fun as hell..

    • Katana67

      I have 200 hours in the game, I have problems with the state of the game. Why does this make me a hypocrite?

      • sircolby45

        Because if the game is so terrible why have you “endured” it for 200 hours? I agree that the game is not up to the quality that it should be, but the simple fact of the matter is Battlefield even with its flaws is still better than any other game out there.

        • Katana67

          Okay, so I don’t think it’s horrible. I think it’s playable and fun.

          However, it does have glaring problems which I would like addressed.

          Something can be enjoyable, yet flawed. In fact, most things are.

          • Ryan ‘Ryman’ Clark

            This is the attitude most gamers need to have. It’s perfectly okay to like a game even if it does have problems or gets a lot of hate. You sir, get a cookie.

          • DarthDiggler

            @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

            What are these so called “glaring issues”? The rubber banding is under control (not eliminated, but show me an online game where rubber banding doesn’t exist). The easy 1 hit kill has been corrected. I get far fewer mystery deaths lately.

            The only issues BF4 has at the moment is balancing stuff. Which is an ongoing process that never ends. EA/DICE were likely still balancing BF3 until recently.

            Please cite these glaring issues you have encountered since the last patch.

            • Katana67

              Random spread.

              Aircraft being wholly useless.

              Lock-on AA/AT being wholly better than unguided AA/AT.

              Continuing the rent-a-server paradigm.

              A lack of decent UI inclusions (like match timers, upcoming maps, etc.)

              Vulnerable spawns.

              Missing assets in Hardcore (i.e. reticles for the MLRS and Mortars).

              Friendly munitions detonating on teammates in Hardcore.

              Increased marginalization of the bipod.

              Poor bipod deployment on ledges.

              Glitchy map assets (i.e. cumbersome buildings on Oman, random invisible boundaries on Dragon Pass).

              Shall I copy and paste my “ideal changelog” from a previous thread here on MP1st?

            • DarthDiggler

              @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

              These aren’t “glaring issues” these are minor issues that will likely be addressed in future updates. Glaring issues prevent the game from being played properly. The blue-screen issue was a glaring issue. Game balance and annoyances — not glaring issues — see the difference?

              Let me pick apart what you have to say though.

              Random spread.

              Could you be any more vague? :P

              Lock-on AA/AT being wholly better than unguided AA/AT.

              Well wouldn’t lock on weapons be more accurate than ones that are not?

              That being said, I use the RPG (Dumb Fire) to take down helicopters all the time.

              This is a balance issue 100%. Not a bug.

              Continuing the rent-a-server paradigm.

              A feature that wasn’t available with BF3 at launch, and this is not a bug or a glaring issue, it is an omission at best. :P

              A lack of decent UI inclusions (like match timers, upcoming maps, etc.)

              Obliteration now has a timer (if that is what you mean). Upcoming maps can be viewed during any match if you press pause and view the Server Settings (hit R1 to see map rotation). This functions exactly as it did in BF3 and BFBC2 (I think) you must be new to the franchise.

              Vulnerable spawns.

              Which game mode? The spawns aren’t always vulnerable on every map every game mode. Again this is not a bug, this is a balancing issue.

              Missing assets in Hardcore (i.e. reticles for the MLRS and Mortars).

              Hardcore is missing MANY UI elements, which is why they call it Hardcore. If some reticules are missing, that would be a minor bug.

              Friendly munitions detonating on teammates in Hardcore.

              Munitions friendly or otherwise will explode when shot (I believe this happened in BF3 too, not sure about BFBC2). When you are playing Hardcore that will hurt you like friendly fire. Which is why I tend to stick my Ammo boxes in a place that is not right out in the open.

              Increased marginalization of the bipod.

              Not a bug, a balance issue.

              Poor bipod deployment on ledges.

              Not a bug, a balance issue.

              Glitchy map assets (i.e. cumbersome buildings on Oman, random invisible boundaries on Dragon Pass).

              Define cumbersome? Like ones that don’t blow up? Not all of the buildings will come down in BF4 (was the same in BF3). I haven’t encountered random invisible boundaries on Dragon Pass, but sounds like a minor bug. :P

              Shall I copy and paste my “ideal changelog” from a previous thread here on MP1st?

              With your definition of “glaring issues” don’t bother, most of what you are complaining about is merely balance issues. The vast majority of “glaring issues” have been resolved.

              When something doesn’t work that is a bug, when something isn’t working as intended that is usually a balance issue.

            • Katana67

              These are glaring issues to me, balance, bug, or “working as intended” or not.

              I encounter them in day-to-day gameplay, and I will continue to advocate for DICE to address them.

              Simply because your and my subjective definitions of “glaring” do not align, doesn’t mean that I cannot be critical.

            • DarthDiggler

              @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

              You can call them what you want, but when you call balance issues “glaring” you are being chicken little and declaring the sky is falling. Tone down the rhetoric and apply a sense of scale, when BF4 was first released there were many “glaring” issues, today that isn’t the case.

            • Katana67

              Not at all.

              These things are important to me, the use of glaring is not rhetorical when I encounter serious problems (with regard to balance and “working as intended” features which are indeed apparent, hampering, and detrimental) on a day-to-day basis.

              Simply because you personally don’t consider these issues to be “glaring”, and I do, doesn’t mean that these aren’t serious problems. I prefer not to dwell on semantic arguments anyhow.

              These problems would not be apparent if I hadn’t invested a lot of time playing BF4, which was the entire point of this discussion.

            • DarthDiggler

              @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

              The issues you point out are largely balance issues. You may or may not like it but that doesn’t mean its a bug.

              Balance doesn’t happen overnight its a process that will happen until DICE stops supporting BF4 with updates.

              Glaring has much wider implications and in this instance seems to be a misuse of the word. If the game is so bad, take it to GameStop and rid yourself of such mediocrity. Never buy Battlefield again, that’s what I did for COD. I didn’t just keep buying it and complaining that I didn’t like the game, that is crazy.

        • DarthDiggler

          @sircolby45:disqus

          Seriously what is wrong with BF4 today? I have been playing it on and off since it came out and it seems to play better every time I have logged in. Honestly I haven’t had any major issues since January. At this point it seems like they are down to “maintenance tuning” and not “launch window shit totally fuct up tuning”.

          Also with Battlefield you have to remember your patches are not complete until both the client and server patches are live.

          • sircolby45

            Oh I am in no way trying to say there is nothing wrong with BF4. There are plenty of issues and slow netcode, random suicides, getting shot behind walls, etc. are a few that I would name. BF4 when it started had more bugs than a rain forest. The point I was trying to make is this game is doing things that no other game company is even attempting. Their engine is leaps and bounds ahead of any other engine on the market. There is a lot more room for error when you have an engine that complex. Despite all of the bugs this game is still the best game on the market.

            • DarthDiggler

              @sircolby45:disqus

              No you and I are in agreement near 100%, I think most of the complainers at this point just want to hear themselves talk. The issues they have today are mostly balance and server tweaks. It’s by no means the triage they had to apply to the game when first released.

              I just hope all the complainers don’t stunt the series. Battlefield has always iterated and given you something new each time. I am afraid with all these complainers DICE may play it safe and stunt the series so they can make it easier to develop. I’d rather they push envelopes and I will deal with the launch day issues (pissed off) and be happy when they fixed because I am playing an awesome game that is unique.

      • DarthDiggler

        @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

        The reason anyone with hundreds of hours logged into BF4 and still complaining all the time makes you a hypocrite is because if you had any sense of integrity you wouldn’t play a “broken” game at all.

        You are a special kind of hypocrite if you call this game “unplayable” like many have and still have hundreds of hours clocked in.

        I hated the way COD did Net Code and the fact that Activision was too much of a cheap skate to setup dedicated servers which were sorely needed. I swore off the series after that. I didn’t buy any Activision game for about 2 years.

        That’s how you complain with integrity, if the game is really THAT BAD you don’t’ play it and you don’t buy it or the DLC. Why would you? It’s a terrible game remember?

        • Katana67

          I said literally none of that. My point was that one doesn’t have to STOP PLAYING something, simply because they’re unhappy with certain things.

          If people had that attitude throughout life, there’d be a lot more suicides I’d wager.

          Point being, I always want to enjoy BF. I want to keep playing it and enjoy the franchise that I’ve been playing since BF 1942. Battlefield 4 is great, but it could be better. I want things to be better. The second we stop taking a critical eye, is the second we stop being informed consumers.

          • DarthDiggler

            @Katana67

            I didn’t say you said anything please re-read my post, I was speaking broadly. You must have a guilty conscience. :)

            Actually if you are not happy with any product and you haven’t stopped using it one could argue that unhappiness is skin deep.

            For me with COD I swore off the series and didn’t come back, didn’t even buy an Activision game for 2+ years. That is real anger. :) That is genuine voting with my dollars.

            If you not willing to make that sort of commitment, then you really aren’t all that mad about the game.

            You kind of expose your true feelings right here..

            simply because they’re unhappy with certain things.

            So in essence you are just unhappy about somethings with BF4. In previous posts you said you didn’t like the “glaring issues”. Which is it man? Is the game playable in it’s current form or is it not?

            You see what I mean though? If you can’t decide that you hate the game you must love it if you play it everyday. Just accept it for what it is and maybe you can even allow yourself to enjoy the game.

            I still stand by my remark, you can’t log 200 hours into a game while simultaneously complaining non-stop about it and not be a text book hypocrite.

            You don’t see me complaining do you? I am not 100% happy with the game, but I know that DICE will mop the rest of the balance issues up in a matter of time. You can’t fast track balance issues because they require feedback from the audience.

            Love it or leave it man. It’s Battlefield its never been known to be a flawless experience on the consoles.

            • Katana67

              “Love it or leave it”, sort of tells me that I shouldn’t engage you ever again in discussion.

              Toodles.

            • DarthDiggler

              @disqus_qzHgyVv4KC:disqus

              Dude you trying to have it both ways though. You making wild claims about BF4, positioning balance issues as “glaring issues”. You are employing lots of rhetoric in your responses.

              I am just saying tone it down and maybe you’d enjoy the game more. Also it seems to me like you haven’t played many Battlefield games on the consoles. History shows they always ship with problems. You can’t simultaneously release a game that has the scope of BF4 and expect it not to have any issues.

              I was pissed the first weeks of BF4 (I paid for Premium day 1) but they have made remarkable improvements with nearly every patch (one patch made bluescreens worse but that required a hardware firmware update to really fix). I wanted DICE to improve the game and they have. For the most part the only issues that remain are balance issues. Balancing is an ongoing effort that will continue until BF4 is no longer developer supported.

              You are nit picking.

            • ThePicker

              You never get tired of listening to yourself? The game is far from flawless and if you cannot see that, then obsiously your opinion is bias. You saying the netcode is somewhat fixed over and over, doesn’t change others mind. It is still beyond broken, in fact i think it has gotten way worse with the latest patch. Many things now feel “awkward”, the accuracy and the aiming is way off, even more so than what it was before.

              Should I live with it, and not complain? No, i paid for the product, and as of right now, it’s in a pretty bad shape, despite DICEs efforts.

            • DarthDiggler

              @thepicker:disqus

              Did I say it was flawless? Never, I am just sick of the Anti-EA-Tards just piling on to pile on. I find hive minded conformity to be rather repugnant.

              What is in bad shape today? Have you played the game recently? Few blue-screens, rubber banding mostly gone, the biggest issues they have today is balance. There seems to be some audio issues still happening. Nothing makes the game unplayable. If you are complaining about the game 3+ months after launch, take it back. If you don’t want to take it back, stop your fucking bitching already and change your diaper.

              I am sick of hearing it as a gaming news consumer, so I am voicing my complaints to the BF4 complainers because it’s time to put it to bed already or if you truly unsatisfied with the game sell it to GameStop and rid yourself of such a poor piece of software.

            • ThePicker

              I already described the issues; Netcode.

              Maybe you find it to be “fine” or “good”, but I don’t, nor does many others. Yes, the game is playable, but as i already wrote, far from perfect.

              I am sick of hearing you dwell over the game, fussing over anyone who dare to complain about a product, that most have paid £60+ for, 4 months after launch still struggle.

              DICE acknowledge the problems, yet you seem to be oblivious about ANY netcode problems.

  • Sgt. Mofo

    Keep in mind this talk was conducted before the release of BF4. There is some truth to his statements, especially pertaining to the Battlelog forums. Some people will stay pessimistic no matter what DICE does. Just because there are those who complain for the sake of complaining doesn’t mean DICE should be ignoring all negative feedback. Level headed and well-articulated discussions can be found elsewhere on the internet.

    • DarthDiggler

      @sgt_mofo:disqus LOL well level-headed and well-articulated seem to be 2 qualities of writing that escape your average FPS gamer. :)

      I for one am SICK to DEATH of the constant Anti-EA messaging out there that is starting to become borderline Anti-Free Market. EA is a big company so when they make fumbles the impact is going to be big (ala MS with XBONE DRM). There are few companies in the gaming industry of their scale that put out such quality on a regular basis (check their scores on MetaCritic, few publishers can claim a higher average score). They put out more games than most publishers and they generally have similar quality. The accusations that the company in total is doing something wrong are completely out of sync with measurable metrics and obvious reality.

      • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

        It escapes your average person. I wouldn’t get too excited. Measurable metrics and a criticism of the average gamer contradicts itself, leaving extra fault that I find can be placed on both parties.

        I don’t like the exaggerated common anti-EA sentiments either but that doesn’t absolve them of determinedly seeing success where others reasonably see as fumbles. Of course, none of this is measurable, because what is measurable are the people Hilleman includes: the people who complain and (presumably) continue to buy.

        • DarthDiggler

          @thatspeakeroftruth:disqus

          At this point anyone complaining about the state of BF4 is just exaggerating the anti-EA sediments. I don’t think EA is the best thing since sliced bread, but I am not going to knock a company for their successes.

          That being said I really think all this BF4 hate seems to be in a vacuum. Battlefield games have issues on consoles for weeks after launch. That isn’t a complaint, that is my observation after owning all the Battlefield games on the console.

  • Guest

    While I do agree Battlelog is a cess pool of trolls who get banned, post on alt accounts, group together and post every day, EA and Dice have released 2 broken products over span of 2 and 1/2 years, It isn’t justifiable.
    I’ll name off a bunch of trolls on Battlelog, Bfizzle, Mindset, Alex Glickman, British Assassin,Sircliffe, Veh oopta gupta ( Nic cage,) Spooderman, There is a “social hierarchy ” on BL, But please just go back to Battlefield’s roots and be polished, That’s all I ask for.

  • http://tabletliegitim.com/ Orcun Acik

    This man has a sick mind. EA is totally corrupt !

  • grunt0311

    People need to complain… complaining prompts change. But… you cant complain and log 200 hours into the game. You contradict yourself. People should have complained. Got a refund for their premium. Then return the game or sell it. That’s what I did. I’ll also never buy another EA/Dice game at launch. I’ll see if the next installment improves. If it doesn’t…. I wont buy.

    • WebWeaver40

      “But.. you can’t complain and log 200 hours into the game. You contradict yourself”

      Absolutely not true. The more you play the game, the more you are of aware of the faults. Complaining about an aspect of the game doesn’t mean you have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I have put in hundreds of hours into BF4. As a whole I like the game, yet there are legitimate complaints (netcode) I have that need to be addressed to make the game what it should be.

      I have put in over a thousand hours into BF3, I still have complaints about that game (suppression). That doesn’t mean I dismiss the entire game. Nor am I contradicting myself or losing credibility because of my time invested – quite the opposite actually.

    • DarthDiggler

      @disqus_62MgDtFooZ:disqus Battlefield 4 must have been your first Battlefield, they all ship with issues at least on the consoles. I cough it up to a grander vision than your average multiplayer. I hate the launch period but bear it, because DICE always sticks by their games.

      • grunt0311

        I tried bf3 but gave up during the launch because of the same problems. I really like what they’re trying to do. Im in the Marines so I can really appreciate the vast war experience. But its been too many problems and the fact I cant party up before a match blows my mind. Maybe the next one will be worth it to me.

        • DarthDiggler

          @disqus_62MgDtFooZ:disqus

          How many other games do 32v32, full destruction, ground vehicles, helicopters, jets, etc. on the console?

          Not many, likely because it isn’t easy. If you want the ultimate experience it comes with some tradeoffs. Also as I explained above you are buying a consumer level product, not an enterprise level product with guaranteed up time.

  • Delta8A

    Fucker grew up in Vegas. You think he can tell right from wrong?

    • DarthDiggler

      So everyone who grows up in Vegas has no moral compass?

      That’s a tad judgmental don’t you think?

      • VEX_VEHIX

        Dude, he is only responding to Hillman’s “Vegas is full of liars” statement.

        • DarthDiggler

          Maybe you operate using a different brand of English, but his words are plain spoken.

          Fucker grew up in Vegas. You think he can tell right from wrong?

          In this sentence the fucker is Hilleman. The second sentence refers back to Hilleman as ‘he’.

  • https://www.twitter.com/#!/PR0TENTIAL Shawn Kegarise

    This guy is beyond clueless.

    • Ryan Merrifield

      Why?

  • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

    Won’t disagree or agree fully, even if this comes out as tactless to the very people he’s criticizing. I understand much of what he’s saying and it’s clear that he know the people buying the product aren’t idiots, but they’re not exactly pockets of earnestness that speak nothing but the truth. Ergo, the irony of my persona.

    Regardless of what people think of his words, you should probably assume some sort of responsibility if you have ever done anything that you can honestly not call, from hindsight, completely rational or honest. Obviously that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be complaining about serious issues that arguably should have been resolved earlier or before release and EA’s not blameless for their marketing schemes and dilution of actual helpful processes like actual alpha and/or beta builds (for marketing), but it does mean that often complaining about things is not just about complaining about things.

    As was mentioned, all people are complex and the few words we read from them don’t tell anybody reading them who they are. Many posting here blurt out initial thought, rant or rave, apologize, or simply reinforce their opinions using rating or replying features. There’s psychological sides to humans regarding guilt, cognitive dissonance, and perception that so clearly fail all the time. I mean, how many people really found issue with minor inaccuracies in player positions due to low “tickrate” before some rant of a video, despite its claim as not being a rant, sensationalized the topic into almost a meaningless buzzword?

    There’s many ways to take his comment. The fact that it came before Battlefield 4′s release undoubtedly makes it sound more insensitive than if it was delivered after, but overall the fact makes it seem worse to me. And don’t get me wrong, I have a very negative view on EA especially since the conception of a “Premium” service by a manipulative higher-up who I am sure is being lauded as a genius by the rest of the higher-ups.

    However, you can take his comment as much as blunt criticism towards gamers as much as blunt criticism from gamers to him. If you can’t take criticism reasonably without calling him a cunt, maybe you shouldn’t be one to call him a cunt without much reason. The entire premise behind public relations is that often one or both sides never shows their true face and that’s just a fact. I would rather hear a company’s chief push back so that the public isn’t completely ignorant of where they stand as an audience with purchasing power and people with ethics.

    All in all, if you’re taking this as a personal offense, it may or may not speak to or about you in some way. It’s worth reflecting on that, because I find myself as frustrated by gamers nowadays as with EA. And that seemed like a very, very hard thing to do.

  • ManwithaMission

    Thats great. no hope for a fixed game

  • NuttyTheSquirrel

    “but I don’t think it’s a very precise form of communication”

    Ok, talking, complaining, etc isn’t a very precise form of communication, what if someone fucking bombs your office because of the shitty decisions you’re making. Is that a good for of communication? Or are they trying to kill you because in reality they love you (to death). Ye, I think I would make a better CCO than this idiot.

    • Seth T

      I see his point. I’ve found myself complaining numerous times when I’m just seething with anger. When I take a step back, reread what I typed, I can find a much more functional and coherent structure for my message that gets across what I originally intended. His remark touches on this, however he is also stating that all Complainers on the games forums are taking this approach to giving criticism and remarking on troubled experiences and issues. This is where his statement fails and now only hurts him and the company rather than bringing some form of light to the subject.

      I’ve also never seen a company so quickly turn on it’s playerbase and attempt to quell the tide of frustration and anger regarding the status of the game by telling the players that they are wrong. This particular situation between EA, DICE and the gamers is unique and in no shape or form should be laid at the feet of it’s consumers for it’s failings.

      • NuttyTheSquirrel

        The thing is, EA is such a fucking snob, that BF4 had the worst launch ever (at least that I’ve experienced), it was mostly EA’s fault for pushing the game through quality testing/control and now they call us idiots and/or liars? Are they out of their fucking mind? I swear to god that I want EA to die and some big, GOOD publishers buys their shit. I would much rather have Rockstar or Ubisoft backing the BF franchise up, since they don’t actually give a fuck about sales as much as quality. While Rockstar and Ubisoft want to sell for their game’s quality, EA just tries to squish as much money as they can by releasing BF before CoD so that the average consumer sees a shooting game and buys it, before CoD. It’s a really stupid idea if the game’s not finished. But we can already see that they don’t really give a shit about their reputation and that their going to be “Worst Company in America – 2014″… I can still remember when they said this: “We don’t want to be viewed as the worst company in America”.
        And Patrick Soderlund said this: “I personally don’t think we’ve ever been the worst company in America, but it says something. The consumers out there are telling us something”

        “THE CONSUMERS OUT THERE ARE TELLING US SOMETHING” yet, they still fuck up in every way, shape or form possible.

        • DarthDiggler

          The funny thing is EA games have scored quite well collectively and they have put out far more games than most publishers. RockStar ranks very high, but very few games and only about 6-7 point difference on average.

          They have done bone headed things, but much of that has been back tracked. Sure people bitch about Origin, but is Valve the only player allowed to have a digital marketplace on the PC? EA makes a bunch of games and if they want to attach them exclusively to their own platform it is their prerogative. I am not saying it’s wise but time will tell if their decision is the correct one and people bitching on their forums is not a good indicator.

          I really think all this talk about EA all the time is just a constant drumbeat, it’s popular to shit on EA. Some on this very thread may actually feel better about themselves by putting other down. EA makes some great games and I don’t understand how a company can be so successful with so much of a bad rap.

          The fact is EA’s success is due to the fact that people keep buying their games and associated content. So either peeps who complain are liars or the peeps who complain are a very small yet very vocal amount of customers.

          Either way talk is cheap.

    • DarthDiggler

      @storm_worm5364:disqus

      Ok, talking, complaining, etc isn’t a very precise form of
      communication, what if someone fucking bombs your office because of the
      shitty decisions you’re making.

      See now you we have someone being beyond ridiculous. I mean EA has a botched launch on BF4 and we have someone threatening to bomb their offices.

      Stop the insanity.

      Dude put your money where your mouth is stop buying Battlefield, it is not healthy for you to do so, given your disturbing statements, that should have never made it past your head.

      I just love how this guy’s statement doesn’t bat an eye from the anti-EA-tards. I say anti-EA-tards because I don’t know many people who hate a company they simultaneously financially support. That makes no sense to me at all and is borderline retarded (my apologies to the mentally challenged).

  • VEX_VEHIX

    This aint Vegas. Whatever happens in Battlefield, spreads to the interwebz. EA can’t BS thier way out of this one.

  • born2expire

    Just drop BF1942 into Frostbite and make 80% of the community happy. Then in 2 years do the same with BF2.

    In all seriousness, really how much effort/money would this take. I would guess maybe 25% of a new game, so DICE/EA get to it.

    • WebWeaver40

      Actually, I think if DICE/EA would put bf42 into frostbite 2, that would be seriously awesome. Give me back my prop planes! They work so much better on a scale like battlefield maps. Jets are for flight sims with no boundaries.

  • paulinacio

    The guy has some balls… That is for sure! lol I would have agreed with him, if the game only had a foew issues, but the things that make a fps game a “FPS” are broken lol

  • [zomB] Jay

    Check out the big brass hairies on this guy.

    i’ve over 200+ hours but I enjoy the game WHEN it works… when it doesn’t I don’t rage as much as I did…. I’m just disappointed … if BF3 was the beta surely 4 should have been mind blowingly bastarding orgasmically awesome not flawed and exploited as it is.

    On current gen bf3 and bf4 did nothing but freeze, I upgraded to next gen hoping things would have improved but it seems the small issues No one really took notice of were “fixed” but in reality were made 10x worse.

    But… I enjoy the game, I enjoy the game play, I enjoy joining up with friends and should we come across an issue… we work around it… we shouldn’t have to but *shrug*

    I’m on xbone but that doesn’t *sniffle* mean *sniffle* we can’t all be friends

  • zack bosn

    if he grew up in las vegas where people like to lie does it means hes a liar too?

    • VEX_VEHIX

      BINGO!

    • DarthDiggler

      So everyone who lives grows up in Vegas is now a liar?

      Your hate of EA must run deep that you are willing to toss people of a major city under the bus just to score some points on a comment below an article about EA?

      If EA can figure out a way to monetize blind, hive-minded hate, they will certainly triple their profits.

      • VEX_VEHIX

        I believe he was just making a funny assumption to Hillman’s hypocritical statement.

      • zack bosn

        are u on your period bro? im just judging from what hillman said “I grew up in Las Vegas, and one of the byproducts of growing up in
        Las Vegas is that you learn at a very early age is that people lie,
        like a lot”
        and i assume that HE’s saying that las vegas people like to lie. so fck u and grow up
        2ndly getting like in the comment wont make me rich or famous
        lastly you are right i hate ea AFTER i read this post but before i was a fan

        • VEX_VEHIX

          I think DarthDiggler is in fact, Rich Hilleman. Lol

          • DarthDiggler

            @VEX_VEHIX:disqus

            See what I mean, I can’t bring up a contrary opinion with out the Hive Mind activating and accusing me of being involved with EA or some kind of EA apologist.

            You know the world isn’t so black and white junior.

            • VEX_VEHIX

              OMFG. Why so serious? You really need to relax, dude. Do you always have to correct people? Attacking my comprehension of english was cute, son.

        • DarthDiggler

          @zackbosn:disqus

          I just think to apply criticism to this aspect of what he says is just useless and sounds like you have a beef with Vegas.

          Look I am no EA fanboy, just so sick of the hive mind hate against EA and much of it is nonsense in my eyes for reasons I have explained above if you care to read them.

          And fuck you have a nice day! (see I can be a dick too)

  • Marcus Roue

    Don’t get mad, get even.

    There are several class-action lawsuits going on right now in the US. Google it and contact one of the law firms to join in.

    You’re likely to get money back and probably enough to compensate what you spent on the game.

    • BVX3

      I read that the cases where recently Dismissed, if so, bummer man.

      • Marcus Roue

        Didn’t come across that in my searches.

    • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

      The problem with what I think your assumption is is that class action lawsuits don’t mean much by themselves. By loose definition, class suits are formal complaints against a person or group as civil action–varying from uses as giving power to consumers and acting as a democratic check.

      But a case’s sole existence doesn’t mean much beyond knowing a whole bunch of people are angry or otherwise aroused enough (and assured by the counsel of attorneys to spend money and effort) to create the case. You could create one on anything, regardless of whether it is ridiculous or reasonable, if you had the resources.

      The more relevant problem seems to be that EA isn’t really guilty of false advertising beyond any acceptable means or excuses. People forgo all blame that can be placed on them: buying into a product before it is released with hundreds of dollars knowing little to nothing on the actual product. Software, additionally, being new and understandably fickle, cannot be held quite to the same standards as if a construction crew builds a shoddy building that topples, especially if there is ongoing support.

      How strong of a case do you think it would be for a bunch of dissatisfied moviegoers to submit a class action lawsuit after preordering movie tickets (sound strange? It is with games, too) and finding it nothing like the minutes-long movie teasers and trailers (who would have thought!?) The rise of incentivization of preordering (and other services like Battlefield’s Premium) receive backlash. The common sentiment by reasonable customers of video games is to ignore your impulses provoked by companies disingenuously to purchase a product partially for almost completely different reason than the product itself. But that’s not what most people do; the vast amounts of gamers rushing to preorder games to be among the first are responsible for their actions as much as I see publishers responsible for their manipulation.

      It’s not about getting mad or getting even, as I’ve learned over the years being bitter with EA, it’s about taking responsibility of your actions. Barring exceptional cases, that means it shouldn’t be about getting your money back. It’s about making change, to the game or to the company, or living with it.

      As a disclaimer so I’m not unmercilessly attacked, I’ll remind obligatorily that I’m not apologizing for EA. I agree with a lot of grievances people have with EA and some of what people have with Battlefield 4, DICE, and so forth. My purpose here is to actually balance the scales with some of my much-pondered thoughts. But feel free to argue in response to them.

      • DarthDiggler

        @thatspeakeroftruth:disqus

        Good luck getting money back for premium if you already downloaded some of the content. Technically premium is a service.

        I agree with you it’s about taking responsibility for your actions, but I believe much of these complaints seem to exist in a vacuum and people rarely if ever bring up that BF3 and BFBC2 largely had similar issues. I was pissed when both of those games came out too, but I got over it as they fixed it and eventually I realized that there weren’t that many titles pulling off what DICE does with Battlefield, so it’s understandable for them to have issues since this isn’t the type of multiplayer experience most developers are creating. They are blazing trails here and not playing follow the leader. They have big and robust vision for Battlefield and you standard staples of quality assurance may not be as effective with a vision of this size.

        Activision on the other hand has largely released the same game year after year and each one ships with the same problems. I think that deserves more scrutiny that DICE’s issues which seem to stem from a robust ambition for the game.

      • Marcus Roue

        You’re making it more complicated than it really is.

        EA sold consumers a product. EA decided to release the product before it was ready. End result? EA delivered a product that wasn’t satisfactorily functioning after 3 months of release. EA couldn’t provide the software patches to fix these problems within a reasonable time frame and yet today it is still running with issues.

        Due to the nature of retail software no consumer can return opened products to their retailer for a refund. Therefore a class action lawsuit is justified and I’ll let a judge decide rather than listen to armchair lawyers.

  • BVX3

    Your logic has to be the dumbest shit that I have ever read. I’m sure people “really” don’t give a shit about that 110 dollars they spent on the game and premium, its really about the “social hierarchy” on the BattleLog Forums. All because you don’t trust liars? WTF!? How does that tie into your social hierarchy excuse. THAT SHIT IS SO FAR FROM MAKING ANY SENSE, ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH! Here’s my advice though , 1. You should really dislodge your swollen head out of your weathered asshole and get over the consensual poundings you took from your fat alcoholic uncle when you where a child. That’s probably why you have trust issues, and I’m sure your mother wasn’t to transparent about her “9 to 5″ , and told you she was a nurse or some shit but in actuality she was a hooker soliciting her wretched vagina on the Vegas Strip for 20 dollars probably so she could get a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20, for the walk of shame home and pay for your Obsessive Barbie collection. I feel bad for you but your still a INCOMPETENT PRETENTIOUS SHIT STAIN who got fucked by his gay boy loving Uncle when he was a kid. So now in his depressing Adult life is too much of depressed cock lover it effects him on performing his job correctly. Its fine to feel the way you do but don’t fucking tell us. So I wanted to tell you how I feel. 2. PLEASE, DO US ALL A FAVOR AND KILL YOURSELF!
    (or just stop wearing condoms with your 17 year old boyfriend, I’m sure you’ll get AIDS and when you do I will be there to point and laugh). DICK.

  • Ben August

    Hahaha what an ass. I hope every finance and analysis publication heard this. Just wait till investors hear about how the CCO doesn’t trust it’s own consumers. Lol pos company.

  • Just saying

    So that’s what EA thinks!!! Ok, watch these whining gamers walk away from your games and then we’ll talk. I don’t believe that I spent $110 on this game to get a disgusting response like this. DICE needs to be separated from EA, they are going down and taking DICE with them.

  • Jason Lane

    He said this last September. Has a different meaning now.

  • CrzyFox

    riight, like BF4 hasn’t been the end all be all of bugs for its life cycle up until this month, what a moron, if he played, and didn’t get paid for PR, he would not be saying that, as a matter of fact “i guarantee it”

  • Hræsvelgur

    That guy is a fucking moron. I wouldn’t be as pissed as I am at DICE if they had been even remotely humble about their piece of shit game and their colossal ineptitude and absurd idiocy when it came to fixing said game.

    Instead those arrogant cunts went on vacations and dismissed countless constructive concerns and feedback from their ever-shrinking loyal fan base.

    From the smolsdering dumpster fire that is bf4 two truths have emerged; 1) DICE is without question the shittiest fps dev in existence. They manage to remove bugs with one patch, and reintroduce them again in the very next patch. Not to mention all the far more significant issues which continue to plague their game. 2) I will never ever buy another DICE product as long as I live, and I hope I can persuade others to also follow suit.

    If anyone is wondering why my post seems so negative, it’s because I haven’t gotten my 110$ worth of bitching done yet.

    • Samuel Jackson

      Remember when Battlefield games were released as complete, bug-tested, working games and only cost $49,99 ?

      Yeah, me too.

      Fuck you, EA. Fuck you so hard.

      • DarthDiggler

        @disqus_sfNvbZlb8f:disqus

        Battlefield games have generally pushed the envelope. It’s hard to push the envelope and produce bug free games. Of course DICE could have played it safe and released the same game every year (ala COD).

        You can still get Battlefield 4 on the PC for $49.95, EA doesn’t set the console pricing.

    • DarthDiggler

      @hrsvelgur:disqus

      You are beyond fucking ridiculous. You are exactly the type of customer this guy is talking about.

      I was pissed about BF4, but than most the issues got fixed over time and I recalled that nearly this same thing happened to BF3 and BFBC2. Either BF4 is host to a bunch of BF Noobs on the consoles or these are brand new BF customers that do not have any historical context.

  • KennyKyle

    ive been following dice for 6 years and loved them, but now i want my $110 back please

  • http://www.airbanana.com PaPa Cynyk

    I am in that $110 group, game was executed so poorly that I gave up, accepted my losses, but learned that I will never invest in the franchise again. I am comment with this. Still enjoy reading all the ridicilousness around the game and it solidifies my stance to any of their future enterprises.

    • DarthDiggler

      @disqus_3dkNNgKk8K:disqus

      Not to be disrespectful at all, but did you play BF3 and BFBC2? You do realize both games took about the same amount of time to fix as BF4. Give or take a few weeks. You can’t release games of this scope and expect everything to be fine when millions of players slam your servers.

      I was pissed when I bought Premium right away, but today, the game is mostly just fine. I really think these residual complaints are being made by people who haven’t played the game lately or at all.

  • mackan

    I wonder how many are coming with good and relevant criticism to the game and not just say a lot of stupid things to troll or just because they are angry.

  • theplantain

    how do you break a killcam?

    • DarthDiggler

      @theplantain:disqus

      I don’t know why don’t you take several years of school find some funding and setup a studio and show DICE how it’s done. :)

  • Hræsvelgur

    That guy is a fucking moron. I wouldn’t be as pissed as I am at DICE if they had been even remotely humble about their piece of shit game and their colossal ineptitude and absurd idiocy when it came to fixing said game.

    Instead those arrogant cunts went on vacations and dismissed countless constructive concerns and feedback from their ever-shrinking loyal fan base.

    From the smoldering dumpster fire that is bf4 two truths have emerged; 1) DICE is without question the shittiest fps dev in existence. They manage to remove bugs with one patch, and reintroduce them again in the very next patch. Not to mention all the far more significant issues which continue to plague their game. 2) I will never ever buy another DICE product as long as I live, and I hope I can persuade others to also follow suit.

    If anyone is wondering why my post seems so negative, it’s because I haven’t gotten my 110$ worth of bitching done yet.

    • VEX_VEHIX

      Well said, man!

      And by my calculations, you have $109.98 worth of bitching left in your “bitch” bank account. Lol

    • DarthDiggler

      @hrsvelgur:disqus

      Many devs plan vacation when their product ships because the work hours during development create a situation where you often can’t see your family for weeks.

      Look I was unhappy with the state of BF4 between November and January. If you haven’t played since than the game is playing WAY better now. Rubber banding is nearly eliminated, 1 shot kill is long gone. Everything else is just long term balancing and correcting update bugs. The base game is fairly solid at this point in time.

      That being said I still don’t understand the BF4 hate. I have owned every Battlefield game on the consoles and every one has shipped with a good 2-3 months worth of bugs to iron out. It’s just the nature of the beast when you scale something out there is bound to be issues that you didn’t catch in beta.

      How many games do you know that successfully have a dynamic battlefield with infantry and vehicles in up to 64 player maps?

      Not many, and even fewer on the consoles. So while everyone is beating up EA over what they haven’t did right, no one is really giving them or DICE credit for pushing the ball forward for online gaming a bit more.

      Keep complaing and DICE will just take the easy way out and next time there will be NO NEW FEATURES to Battlefield 5 because adding new features causes problems and the gaming community seems to have no stomach for ANY problems. Everything must be perfect the first time or the publisher is some kind of blood sucking vampire.

      Give me a fucking break already.

      • ThatSpeakerOfTruth

        Only thing I really disagree with is that EA has the chance to actually put out real alpha and beta builds (closed or public) for ongoing development feedback rather than a brief exposure to an old build as a de facto demo.

        • DarthDiggler

          @thatspeakeroftruth:disqus

          The Beta on PS3 was active for a pretty good while. I just don’t think an Alpha or a Beta is a very good simulation for launch night when you have millions slamming your servers. Quite honestly it would be difficult for them to allocate resources (away from current games) to setup a proper amount of servers to simulate a launch night. When you scale something like this out you are bound to turn up issues, likely ones never considered.

          There seems to be an apparent lack of historical context from other gamers and especially the gaming media. I don’t think I have read many BF4 articles that explained that BF3 and BFBC2 had similar issues on launch for weeks and months. So I think you have the gaming press playing dumb in order to manipulate feelings amongst people who have a hate hard-on for EA.

          I suspect there were a great many BF4 complainers that never touched the game some comments are completely devoid of any details of issues and just seem to be a boilerplate EA sucks.

          That being said anyone complaining about the state of the game today is being nit picky overall. Not saying there are NO issues, but there are few issues that should really get in the way of the experience.

  • linkenski

    I agree to some extent that forums are often where haters go just to sit on some chair and whine about everything they don’t like. I have even done so regrettably on some forums I’ve been using.

    But this COO is trying to look past that BF4 was practically unplayable for some people so the stuff he says here is understandably very offensive for someone who thought EA were capable of listening properly to feedback.

    • DarthDiggler

      @linkenski:disqus

      These comments from the COO were from before BF4 release, he is likely talking more about Mass Effect peeps.

  • Brian Anthony

    How about give your own developers time to play the game they make and they won’t need the community to bitch to fix their game, they’ll get to experience it for themselves. It takes youtubers to record for proof to be able to show the bugs, come on EA! Dice, look out for a Titan to Fall on your tanks, cause now you’ll have to step you game/play up with some actual good hit detection! EA, now can watch how match making by region with good servers works with TitanFall setup on MS servers. Spend the money good servers and matchmaking only similar pings together, jerks!! Server side hit detection!

    • Hates bad writers.

      If anyone at DICE actually gave a shit about the consumer, they’d quit. If Vince can do it with Respawn, so can the guys at DICE. They’d easily get jobs elsewhere. EA doesn’t force shitty games, they just shove out products regardless of polish. Like the old head of Bioware said “EA gave us enough rope to hangs ourselves with”, and that’s what they do. EA didn’t make the game shitty, they just stopped looking over to see how it was coming along. With that they stopped trying so hard, and as dominoes go, the game turned out to be shit. EA sucks ass, don’t get me wrong, but to blame it all on EA while DICE, Bioware, and numerous others sell you dog shit with a smile, is just plain fucked up.

      • DarthDiggler

        @hatesbadwriters:disqus
        @disqus_Kw8ggKPyxE:disqus

        Are you guys sure you aren’t playing some Chinese knockoff of Battlefield 4? Also do either of you have any history with Battlefield games on the consoles? Newsflash, they always ship with about 2-3 months worth of bugs to work out. Yeah, when you make a game that actually pushes envelopes and isn’t a texture retread (ala COD) you are bound to run into issues that you just can’t beta test. Beta tests work great for initial balance issues and turning up obvious exploits and bugs, but it doesn’t simulate a release to millions of players all popping on at the same time.

        Suggesting that EA or DICE doesn’t care about polish is hogwash. I get it you two are both mad that BF4 didn’t meet expectations come launch night, but apply a sense of scale to your comments and if you haven’t played the game in a while you will be surprised how good it runs.

  • Samuel Jackson

    Rich Hilleman, as a fan of the Battlefield series since BF1942, a HUGE fan, I would let to take this opportunity to share my thoughts with you:

    FUCK YOU, YOU PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT! EA HAS ROBBED GAMERS OF SO MUCH GREATNESS, AND NOW YOU ARE SUCCESSFULLY RUINING ONE OF THE GREATEST PC GAME FRANCHISES OF ALL TIME. I SINCERELY HOPE THERE IS A SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL FOR EA EXECUTIVES.

    YOU HAVE TAKEN GAMING AND MADE IT ABOUT GREED AND PROFIT. YOU ARE SCUM. PARASITES ON OUR INDUSTRY. THIS IS WHY ALL SENSIBLE GAMERS DESPISE EA.

    GET THE FUCK OUT, NEVER PUBLICLY SPEAK AGAIN.

    • DarthDiggler

      LOL Jesus, where do you guys find all this energy to expend? LOL I mean it would cost you far less caloric burning to simply never to do business with EA again and ignore them.

      Something tells me you are a shoe in for Battlefield 5, you may even be the exact customer that Rich was talking about. :)

  • vapor220

    Only EA is arrogant enough to defend a faulty product.

    • DarthDiggler

      @vapor220:disqus

      It takes a special kind of useful idiot to bash a game they don’t play.

  • Reddz Foxx

    Watched the video and the CCO of EA looks like a homeless guy they pulled off the street and gave a mic and was talking about the end of the world coming.

    The rubber banding and issues in BF4 is real… nobody could make that shit up.

    • DarthDiggler

      @reddzfoxx:disqus

      You haven’t played in a while, rubber banding has been mitigated quite a bit in the last few patches.

      People make shit up all the time for various reasons. Do you trust strangers? If so I have some property in Florida I’d like to sell you. :)

  • Vinne Boca

    problems yes
    still the best game out there

  • Kornél Székely

    Maybe these “liars” should consider NOT to spend money for anything that EA makes.

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